|Bette Baker Home Page||Family of Wilhelm Martin and Mollie Spindle||Family of Casper Franzenbach and Susanna Schmidt||Family of Otto Rudolph Martin and Agnes Franzenbach||Site Home|
|Family Tree Data Base|
|Never came to the US||--||--||--||--||--||
|He had two grandsons named "William Frederick" so that was probably his full name.|
|Mollie Spindle||Never came to the US||--||--||--||--||--|
19 Jul 1853
|Entered US 5 Aug 1881 at Baltimore on the Hohenzollern||
Details on his web page: Otto Rudolph Martin
|Stayed with brother Philip for a while when he first came to US, possibly in Cincinnati.|
|1880-1883 I have not yet found his arrival manifest.||Dayton,
Listed as Otto Philip Martin
Wife listed in Dayton, OH.
Wife listed in Dayton, OH
Wife listed in Dayton, OH
| Josephine 1866-?
William Frederick 1890-1970
|Possible: 27 Jan 1919 Dayton, OH. Buried in Woodland Cemetery.||Lived
in Dayton, OH. Photo we have shows him wearing a "POLICE" badge - see
Son, William, married a Lucille and had a daughter in 1921 named Lucille.
I've not been able to trace the family any further.
|Paul O. Martin 1863-1941||Entered the US 31 Mar 1884 at New York on the Eider||Newport, Campbell, KY||Newport, Campbell, KY||not found||Cincinnatti, Hamilton, HO||Cincinnatti, Hamilton, OH||Cincinnatti, Hamilton, OH|| 1. Anna Maria Dietrich
(aft 1863-bef 1892)
William Frederick (1888-1965)
Ella Marie (1889-1951) aka Anna Maria Eleanora Martin Grill.
2. Marie Anna Dietrich (1861-1945)
Paul R. (1897-1982)
|28 Jun 1941 from OH DC. Buried at Rest Haven Memorial Park.||From
granddaughter, Barbara Bouton: "He was a furrier in Cincinnati".
Married two sisters.
1894 Covington City Directory, KY: "Martin Paul O. furrier, h. 412 W 9th"
1909 Cincinnati City Directory, OH: "Martin Paul O., Successor to E.A. Fitzer; Practical Furrier, 1116 Elm; Telephone Canal 246; Residence, Newport".
Middle name probably "Otto".
"Barbara Bouton" <bboutoncolumbus.rr.com>
Subject: Otto Rudolph Martin
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:05:23 -0400
I am trying to contact anyone who is connected with Rudolph. He was my grandmother's godfather, according to the Christening record. He was in Cincinnati circa 1887. There were three brothers: Otto Rudolph, Philip (who had a bakery in Dayton, OH), and my great-grandfather: Paul O. Martin, a furrier in Cincinnati. Could you help me with a little more information about their father William? I know my grandfather went back to Germany at some point to visit him; and then later, on a later document, he lists William as having died.
I have my grandmother's postcards from Carola. She and Carola were contemporaries as well as cousins. Unfortunately, neither girls were big on long, newsy missives. But it does make following some of the movements possible.
Can you help me?
Barbara Bouton - great-granddaughter of Paul O. Martin, Cincinnati, OH.
Thanks for your email. My wife, Sally, is Otto Rudolph's great-granddaughter.
Its really exciting to hear from you. Sally knows practically nothing about Otto Rudolph's siblings.
Attached is a photo of who we were told was Phillip Martin. Bette Baker Clarno, granddaughter of Otto Rudolph only told us : "Dad's youger brother, Philip. I think he lived in Cincinnati". Bette called her grandfather, "Dad".
Maybe this photo isn't Phillip but might be Paul ??? Do you have a photo we can compare it to?
I think I have quite a few photos that I can send you. Give me a day or two to investigate on this end.
1898 Dad's youger brother, Philip. I think he lived in Cincinnatti.
Comment from Bette Baker Clarno - she called her grandfather, Otto Rudolph Martin, "Dad".
Sally & Mark,
The family resemblance is really there. I don't have a scan of my ggf on this computer, but I will be sending you a picture of Paul O. (Otto?) Martin in a day or two. Your pic I think is Philip. There was another brother who stayed in Germany, but I haven't been able to track him down. There is a Rudolph Martin in Germany who was connected with the Kaiser, and possibly was a brother of William, our gggf. I only learned originally about Otto Rudolph when searching for Carola. She was quite a lady. I THINK she was married and outlived 3 husbands before finally dying in a convent. I have a few post cards that she sent my grandmother. My grandmother, Anna Maria Eleanora Martin Grill was 6 or so years older than Carola. Philip lived originally in Cincinnati, and possibly was a policeman. He
moved to Dayton, Ohio, where he started a bakery. It was a flourishing business until a devastating flood destroyed a lot of the town. I haven't had time to get to Dayton to do more digging, and unfortunately, Montgomery County, Ohio, has very little information online. A number of years ago, I hadn't made the Martin connection to Dayton - only the Grill ancestry. If you can't already tell, I am also very excited about finding cousins!
Let's keep in touch!
Have you seen the photos on Dan Soderberg's web page. Dan is descendant from Otto Rudolph's son Rudolph Otto "Val" Martin.
how I found you. I am trying to find out about my
great-grandfather's family - the family which includes my ggrandfather
Paul O. Martin, a furrier in Cincinnati; his brothers Phillip Otto
Martin who ended up as a baker in Dayton, OH, and Otto Rudolph whose
daughter Carola was my grandmother (Anna Maria Eleanora Martin)'s
cousin. Through the website about Bette, I discovered gggf's
of William. Not surprising, by ggf Paul named his son William
Frederich for his father. I have been jabbing at the brick
of the German connection for a number of years. My aunt once told me
that Grandpa Martin said there was a connection with the Hollenzollerns.
The Cincinnati Enquirer had an article about ggf Paul receiving a
letter from his brother in Dortmund, Germany, and his brother's view of
the Kaiser's strengths, and that he only wished he had more sons to
give to the cause.
Otto Rudolph Martin is listed on my grandmother's christening documents as her godfather. This took place before Rudolph took off for Oregon. Any information about these connections would be greatly appreciated.
This is Sally. I totally remember my Aunt Carola. (She was my Great Aunt, the sister of my grandmother, Francis Martin.) My memories of Aunt Carola:
My mother was raised by both her mother and her mother's parents (Otto Rudolph and Agnes). Carola helped in her raising also. I stayed at Carola's house with my sisters for a week when I was 8 years old (1956). I remember being afraid of her (ha!)...she had a strong personality. She was married to my "Uncle Joe" (Joseph Kennedy). He was a very sweet man.
She would send each of us a dollar or maybe two on each of our birthdays and at Christmas. We always sent thank you notes and would exchange letters other times too.
My older sister lived near her in her later years (Carola in Portland and my sister, Sue, in Beaverton), and was in charge of all of her affairs. I remember celebrating her 90th birthday with her, and we 3 young women sang a song that we had written for her. When we came to visit as she was nearing 100, she didn't remember any of us anymore. (She was still so lucid and said, "I don't remember any of you, but I am so happy that you are here to visit.") My mom was sad that Carola couldn't even remember her that she had helped raise. She was in a retirement home when she passed away at the age of 102.
Carola was always very good at keeping up with her friends and relatives during her life. She also saved everything. I'm not sure how my sister handled the liquidation of all of her "stuff."
We always called her "Aunt Coda." She lived so much longer than my grandmother (her sister) who passed away when she was 65 years old.
So we are definitely cousins! Mark is the real geneaologist, so he'll be in communication about those details. My mom was real interested in her roots before she passed away, and Mark helped her a lot with digging back.
My mom wrote her autobiography, I think Mark has it online? You would probably have fun reading that with some familiar names here and there.
We'll keep in touch!
Monday, September 29, 2014 8:46 PM
To: Barbara Bouton
Cc: sally DiVecchio
Subject: RE: Otto Rudolph Martin
Carola had three husbands:
John Pope Graham (married 1920),
Robert Mackenzie (married 1924)
Joseph Bell Kennedy (married 1929, he died 1976).
I get the feeling that the three Martin sons were all Otto:
Paul O. who probably was Otto Paul
Otto Phillip <-- I found him listed this way in the 1900 census.
With your hints about their occupations, I was able to find Paul and Phillip in several 1900-1940 census. If you don't have those, I can email them to you.
Phillip also had a son, William. I found a Phillip Martin who died 27 Jan 1919 and this may be him. In the 1920 census, his wife was listed as widowed.
I found Paul's Ohio Death Certificate on-line, I can send that to you if you don't have it.
This all fits with what I discovered but was unsure about. The granddaughters of Paul were all long livers. My mom, May Elizabeth Grill was 91; aunt Bub (Lillian Augusta Grill was 92; Eleanor Marie (a twin) died at 89; her twin and my godmother Hilda Josephine is still alive at 92. Good genes from the Martin/Dietrich family.
As for Philip, I'm not sure. I think that could be correct, dying so young, but will try to get to Dayton in a couple months. I also need to get to Cincinnati to find Paul's original application for citizenship as well as his passport. I have an abbreviated application for his passport when he wanted to go back to Germany to visit his father listed as William, and again when he just wanted to visit family where he listed his father as deceased. The original citizenship papers hopefully will fill in a few gaps.
How do you know of Mollie Spindler? Do you know if her real name was Emelia? I'm trying to figure out what Mollie is short for.
I should have been doing all of this while my Aunt Bub was alive, but at the time, I was living in the Philadelphia area (Cinnaminson, NJ). Once I moved back to Columbus with my late husband, there was little time between his death and when I had to go to work. I had 2 kids in college. Five years later, I married Peter Bouton and my life took still another turn. We've been married 21 years, and I feel blessed that happenstance brought us together.
So, that's about all for right now. I'll wait for more questions. :-)
email to Barbara with her answers)
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:39 PM
To: Barbara Bouton
Cc: Sally DiVecchio
Subject: Old posts on Genealogy.com
I came across your old posts on genealogy.com from about 14 years ago. In them you talked about Paul O. Martin's two wives. The Dietrich sisters. Was the woman you referred to in your email, Anna Maria Eleanora Martin Grill, one of the two wives? The first? -
>> NO. She was Anna Maria Martin's daughter.
>> ***The Dietrich sisters were: Marie Anna, the elder of the two, who was the SECOND wife, and Anna Maria who was the FIRST WIFE and my great grandmother. Anna Maria died very early - before 1900. She and Paul had three childen: my grandmother (christened Anna Maria Elenora), her brother William Frederich William (who I think must have been named after Paul's father), and Louise. I don't know if Louise's birth caused complications for Anna, or whether she died giving birth to another child who didn't live. It was after that when when Paul married Anna's older sister, Marie. Paul and Marie had 3 children - Lillian, Hilda and Paul. They all married but had no children. Lillian married an executive of the US Playing Card Company, Hilda married a guy named Jim Sparks, and Paul got married and after a day or two, decided he didn't like being married. He was a real waster. His father set him up in business any number of times, and he always blew his chances away. Lillian, jealous of Hilda's marriage, finally was able to split the couple up. Hilda was putty in her hands. That is the saga of the second family.
>> Paul and Anna Maria's children were Anna Maria Elenora (my grandmother), her brother William Frederick (I have to find the actual spelling of "Frederick" known as Uncle Will by my grandmother's children. He married Zelda (I can't tell you her last name off the top of my head), but it seems Zelda was a "show girl" according to my godmother. And then there was Louise, who married, but didn't have children. She and her husband adopted a handicapped girl, whom I didn't find out about until she had passed away.
I'm also confused - are you the granddaughter or great-granddaughter of the Paul O. Martin who was born in 1863?
>> I am the great-granddaughter of Paul O. Martin.
I'm trying to see where you fit into that Martin family tree and its left me with a headache! LOL.
But I've learned a lot more Otto Rudolph's brothers. Are you in contact with any of Philip's descendants?
>> No. I haven't found them.
Do you know a man named Hoffman? Possibly Garry. That person has a family tree starting with William Frederick Martin / Zelda Elizabeth Sides on ancestry.com. Is that the same William, son of Paul O. Martin?
>> Answer: I'll take a look. I didn't know about this angle. I don't think Zelda's maiden name was Sides, but I'm not absolutely sure. It did begin with an S, and I know she was from Chicago. All of this is on a crashed computer. I'm hoping that Sony can get the thing up and running, but I don't think I will hold my breath. Micro Center, our local experts couldn't do anything with it. So, I have to go back to my paper documents and recreate everything.
>> I don't know if this information has helped straightening out the kinks in the puzzle, but I sincerely hope so.
Sorry for all of the questions.
1931 19 Jun - 'Cousins on the Martin Side' Hilda & Lillian, Carola Martin Kennedy (middle), Portland, OR
(written on back in Carola's handwritting)
From Carola's photo album. I didn't know who these people were until Barbara emailed me with information.
Hilda and Lillian were the daughters of Paul O. Martin and his second wife, Marie Anna Dietrich.
1931 19 Jun - Carola & Joe Kennedy, Aunt Mary, Lillian & Fred (Martin), Portland, OR
(written on back in Carola's handwritting)
Aunt Mary is Paul O. Martin's second wife.
Neither I nor Barbara know who Fred is.
|According to the 1920 census, the son of Phillip
a William A. Martin and his wife Lucille were traveling vaudeville
performers. This William in the 1930 census was a theatrical agent.
"Barbara Bouton" <bboutoncolumbus.rr.com>
Subject: RE: William Martin, son of Phillip
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:28:24 -0400
Maybe that's how my grandmother's brother Will met Zelda??? As my aunt said, she was a showgirl. And, the two women lived within 3-4 miles of each other for years and never once contacted each other. My aunt loved her uncle Will, but that, I guess, is where it stopped. She would go downtown to GGF's fur shop, and if she wanted to visit with U. Will, she went in the back door, for that was where he worked with the furs. If she wanted to see her A. Hilda, she went in the front door, because Hilda was the main saleslady at the Practical Furrier. Funny.
Got to get back to Cincinnati to talk with her some more. Always in the past when I would ask her anything, she didn't want to talk about her family. But, my cousin Leslie (her daughter) and I were talking about what I had found so far, and I mentioned the name of Sparks. I thought maybe he was the Sparks who sang with a local band, and this little voice popped up: Jim Sparks. I loved Uncle Jim. He was the nicest man. And if it hadn't been for that nasty Lillian, Aunt Hilda would have had a happy marriage. Aunt Lil couldn't stand for anyone to be happy. She was a really vicious woman. She broke up A. Hilda & U. Jim's marriage and made A. Hilda go to California with them. [Before that, I always thought Hilda was the stinker. Sorry A. Hilda. It was Lillian.] None of the 3 kids from the second marriage of Paul, had children - I guess something good came out of that nasty situation.
Do you know who the Fred is in the photo with Mary and Lillian?
I don't' know. I wish I could tell you. Grandmother talked about an Uncle Fred (or was it my 93 year old aunt?)
Subject: Two William Frederick Martins
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:18:44 -0700
I looks like both Phillip and Paul named their first sons, William Frederick Martin. Paul's son, born 9 Sep 1888 and Phillip's son, born 4 Aug 1890.
This probably means that the father of the 3 Martin brothers was Wilhelm Friedrich Martin (German version of William Frederick).
I've only been able to find one son for Phillip (William Frederick) and that William and his wife, Lucille had only one daughter, also named Lucille. I can't find anything after that.
I found the WWI draft registrations for Paul's sons, William Frederick and Paul Robert, both worked for their father's furrier company at 1116 Elm St. in Cincinnati.
I'm stumped now to find more about Phillip's family.
Hate to burst your bubble about Paul Robert. He was the classic son of a rich man - spoiled rotten by his parents. Paul Sr. set Paul R. up with an auto dealership. He must have felt he was too important to work at it - it tanked. The list goes on. How much his sister Lillian had to do with it, is anyone's guess. He drank, liked to party, was known all over the area and not very kindly. He got married, decided after a night he didn't like marriage. Poor girl - either she was ignorant of his past or thought she could reform him. Either way, she really goofed up there.
Paul Sr.'s son William (Uncle Will) continued with the fur shop. It was on Elm St. which no longer exists. It was torn down and a park established where it once stood. I've been trying to find a photograph of it in the Cinci archives, but haven't been able to stay down long enough to accomplish much. Too much family there who think we need to visit more. :-)
I've found ads for the Practical Furrier in the Cincinnati Enquirer. Family lore is that many famous actresses came to buy their furs there. And supposedly, Paul Sr.'s wives (they were sisters) were cousins of Marlena Dietrich. How close, I haven't been able to figure out, as Marlena never told the truth about herself, preferring her own version. My grandmother told me about this. Aunt Bub (Lillian Augusta Grill Wootan) told about a connection to the Hohenzollerns. I haven't been able to track that down, either. And, don't know which side of the blanket. It makes for a good story at least. But Aunt Bub said Paul Sr. would sit with her on the back steps of the house on Daly Road and tell her stories about the family until either Lil or Hilda would tell him to cut it out. But Aunt Bub was convinced that he wasn't making it up.
I looks like Paul R died in San Mateo, CA and is buried at Rest Haven in Cincinnati. Is that right?
|Yes. So is Lillian and Hilda there as well as I THINK, Paul Sr. I haven't gone to the cemetery yet. It's in Blue Ash, NE of Cincinnati. Anna, Paul Sr.'s first wife was buried in Cincinnati - possibly Spring Grove Cemetery (I'm not sure), but when my grandmother went to visit her mother's grave, someone else was buried on top of her, and the cemetery folks told her that Anna was never there - which was a lot of nonsense, because she had been visiting her grave for years and knew exactly where she was. I'm hoping, when I can find it, there is something in Anna's obituary. I THINK she died in childbirth. It would have been either her 4th child, or when Ella was born. More questions than answers, I'm afraid.|
|Lilian's married name is
Shepherd. I called my aunt. She's 93.
In section 1 lawn: Paul Martin (the father); Paul A. Martin (either a type o or wrong info - should read Paul R. Martin); Hilda M. Martin (M for Marie); Marie A. Martin (grandmother's stepmother and sister of her mother); Lillian Shepherd; Fred A. Shepherd (he was the president of the ___ Playing Card Company - it was the big one out of the Cincinnati area.) These are the only family buried there. None of Paul's children had kids. I called my godmother about Fred's name. She said Lillian was the most beautiful woman she had ever seen - with the bluest eyes imaginable - and the coldest. Hilda had been married to Jim Sparks, one of the nicest men my godmother had ever known. I think I told you that Lillian had convinced Hilda that she really didn't want to be married, and moved her to California when she and Fred left the Cincinnati area. Jim was more than a little upset - seems he really loved Hilda. I don't know what happened to him. Hopefully, he remarried someone nice and had a family.
Lillian and Hilda did help Ella Martin Clinton with her finances. She was a daughter of the first wife, remember, and as such was trash in their eyes as were the rest. After Ella became an adult, she married ___ Clinton and they adopted the daughter of their friends when the parents were killed in an accident. The little girl was handicapped. My aunt said retarded. Ella was their charity case - but whether it lasted after their father died, is anyone's guess. Ella and her husband lived about 2 blocks from the Martin bunch. The girl didn't marry and died (I think) in the 1990's.
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